Embracing a Cybersecurity Mindset

Tech on Deck Podcast Episode Title: Embracing a Cybersecurity Mindset Episode Description: October is Cybersecurity Awareness Month and in this “turn the tables” episode, one of our hosts is also a guest. Join Adam Ely, Chief Information Security Officer, and Rob Hussey, Strategic Information Security Officer (ISO), as they share perspectives on the importance of cybersecurity and the role the ISO plays as a trusted advisor. They also discuss rising threats in the cybersecurity landscape and how Fidelity works to secure the firm and protect our customers in a constantly evolving digital world. #Fidelity Associate #FidelityTech Maureen Olejarz: Welcome to Tech on Deck podcast brought to you by Fidelity Investments. I'm your host, Maureen Olejarz, Domain Leader software Engineering and… Adam Ely: Adam Ely, Chief Information Security Officer. Adam Ely: Each episode takes listeners inside the walls of a fintech industry. Maureen Olejarz: Anything from cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, cloud and crypto to the intersection of product and technology. Adam Ely: Tech on Deck breaks down the topics top of mind for technologists today. Maureen Olejarz: Plus, we'll give you insight into the exciting and challenging careers in FinTech. Adam Ely: Welcome back to season 2 of Tech on Deck, where we will continue to take our listeners inside the walls of the FinTech industry. We're thrilled with our guest lineup for season 2, all of whom are making innovative strides as tech leaders at Fidelity. We're so excited to take you along on this journey with us as we continue to chat with these leaders on the topics that are top of mind for technologists around the globe. Maureen Olejarz: And for today's session, October is Cybersecurity Awareness Month, which is why we're going to turn the tables today. And I'll be interviewing Adam, our Chief Information Security Officer at Fidelity. Adam Ely: All right, so I get the hot seat for a change. So thankfully, I won't be taking Maureen's question solo, Adam Ely: as we also have a second guest, Adam Ely: host today for this Adam Ely: first episode of season two, Rob Hussey. Rob is on my team as an information security officer for Adam Ely: personal investing. Adam Ely: So welcome, Rob. Rob Hussey: Thank you both for having me on. Maureen Olejarz: So, this October marks the 20th anniversary of Cybersecurity Awareness Month, and it's a great time to expand and strengthen our cybersecurity mindsets. Maureen Olejarz: Can you talk to us about the significance of Cybersecurity Awareness Month and how we amplify it across Fidelity? Adam Ely: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, first of all, I can't believe it's been 20 years that we've had a Cybersecurity Awareness Month. It doesn't feel that way, but it's a great thing that we have in this day and age. Adam Ely: Cybersecurity is this existential threat to every company. It doesn't matter the size or the industry. So, taking just a moment, just taking a few weeks to say, “Hey, there's this threat that can affect consumers, that can affect employees, that can affect national and critical infrastructure” is a great, just reasonable thing to do. Adam Ely: And so here at Fidelity, we spend not only the month, but all the way throughout the year thinking about this, communicating this and talking to everybody in the company about how we can be better to protect the company. But we also put out tips and communication for our customers about how they can protect Adam Ely: themselves, either with their Fidelity account or in the rest of their lives. Maureen Olejarz: So, Adam, can you share with us? You know, what exactly do you mean when you talk about embracing a cybersecurity mindset? Adam Ely: Yeah, it's one of my kind of “buzzworthy” kind of things that I that I run around with, for sure. Adam Ely: What I'm saying there - and really what the team is, because I don't want to take all the credit, but what the team is saying there is in everything that we're trying to do in our lives or in our jobs, we should think about the risk. Adam Ely: We should think about how the actions that we take or the actions that we don't take can negatively affect us. If I click on that link, will I be possibly compromising my account? If I design technology a certain way? Am I creating a risk for hackers to get into the organization? So, while we're thinking about what we're trying to achieve in these great features, this great technology, we also have to have that security mindset of thinking how can things go wrong? Adam Ely: So how do we protect all the people that rely upon that technology that we're building? Maureen Olejarz: Well, Maureen Olejarz: that makes a lot of sense in your role as Fidelity's Chief Information Security officer. You lead a team of professionals who are responsible for protecting the firm and our customers. Maureen Olejarz: Can you share Maureen Olejarz: little bit about what they're responsible for each day? Adam Ely: Absolutely. So, we have over a thousand associates on the on the cybersecurity team spanning Adam Ely: three countries, multiple time zones within countries. And they come from all walks of life. We have people who entered their career through technology, if you will, who entered their career, not through technology, but then came to Fidelity. We have people that came from non-technology roles with inside of Fidelity and people that have majored in just about everything you can think of, which makes for some really interesting debates and conversations from day to day. Adam Ely: But this collective - their, if you boil down their mission, the core of their job, the core of their day to day, the core of their role within Fidelity is thinking about how bad things happen in the world and trying to educate everyone, build technology processes and defenses to try to counter that and work with people so that it's not binary. Adam Ely: It's not about, “Yes, you can do that. No, you can't do that.” But it's -there's a thing that we all collectively want to do as a company, and part of that thing is being secure. So how can they work with everyone across the company to make sure we're launching new products, new services that we're doing these new initiatives, but we're doing them with that security mindset that we're doing with security top of mind to manage that risk for our consumers, our clients, and our employees. Maureen Olejarz: That's great. And a lot of what we see here is that Maureen Olejarz: passion that you all bring, as well as the knowledge around that and then make it connect with all of our whether it's our associates, our product owners, our engineering leads, you know, business folks, Maureen Olejarz: so that they can actually operate the right way every day. Adam Ely: And that's where we're really lucky with the makeup of our team. We have people that came from three letter government agencies. We have people from military, we have people from the commercial sector, from big companies, small companies, startups, U.S. companies, overseas companies. We have diversity, make up of backgrounds, social, economic, Adam Ely: gender, Adam Ely: race. Adam Ely: Because we have such diversity in how people look at the world when we go out to work with people in other functions - technology, business, even some of our clients, it's easier for us to see the world through their through their eyes, understand the pressures they have, understand the outcomes they're trying to achieve, and then figure out those solutions, whether it's a technical Adam Ely: solution and we're building technology or it's a process solution, Adam Ely: it really, really helps us. Maureen Olejarz: I think that's great and since we have Rob here as a guest, Maureen Olejarz: Rob, I'm going to reach out to you and just ask, you know, as an Information Security Officer, can you tell us about your overall responsibilities in the firm? Rob Hussey: Sure. Happy to. Rob Hussey: as Information Security Officers of Fidelity, Rob Hussey: we call ourselves trusted advisers, and we want to be viewed as trusted advisers of the business units that we support. Rob Hussey: We also want to help business partners accelerate, but do it in a secure way. We're not we're not there to block things, but we want to make sure that folks are doing things in a secure way. Rob Hussey: The way that we're organized in the ISO team in cybersecurity is each line of business has a dedicated ISO team to consult with and answer questions on cybersecurity. Rob Hussey: And I think if I think about the work that we do, it's really broken down into like five areas of focus. The first one is around engagement, and that's both on the client side and on the internal partner side, our business partners within Fidelity. So on the client side, Rob Hussey: we engage with, with, Rob Hussey: a broader team Rob Hussey: and meet with potential and existing clients to educate them on our cyber cybersecurity posture, Rob Hussey: and make sure that they understand our commitment to cybersecurity, Rob Hussey: our people, as Adam mentioned, the backgrounds and certifications at Fidelity. Internally with partners, we also want to embed as much as possible within our business Rob Hussey: and ensure that security and cybersecurity is prioritized into their roadmaps, into their capabilities, and into their products that are coming down down the pike. Rob Hussey: The other area I would say that we get involved in is security advisory. Rob Hussey: So Rob Hussey: through the engagement that I mentioned Rob Hussey: before, we we want to ensure that our partners are leveraging the capabilities and the processes that cybersecurity provides to help mitigate risk in their environment. Rob Hussey: One area that gets pretty exciting is cyber health and risk reduction. So this is where as ISOs we provide a line of sight to our business partners into here's how things look in your group, Rob Hussey: here's the health, here's any issues and your risk posture. Rob Hussey: And we provide consulting on which ones to tackle first and go after from a mitigation standpoint through reporting. Rob Hussey: And we also get involved in vulnerability remediation monitoring and managing those issues to closure. Rob Hussey: On the regulatory side, the ISOs get involved Rob Hussey: in supporting our business partners that are subject to regulations. Rob Hussey: Fidelity is a diverse, very diverse company. There's many regulations that are imposed on different BUs and we support them through participating in exams, board presentations, making sure that we are properly describing our cybersecurity program here in our in our posture to those to those regulators. Rob Hussey: And then finally, lastly, I would say Rob Hussey: this is really a foundational activity that we do from the ISO office is education and awareness. So this is across the entire company, as I mentioned, through Rob Hussey: especially next month in October. But we educate, we advise, we influence activities with cyber risk implications with our business partners. Rob Hussey: And we do that like we drop into staff meetings, we'll drop into a quarterly, all hands with our BUs, and we'll try to provide sort of relevant, timely cybersecurity topics and updates that that sort of hit the mark in those settings. Rob Hussey: So that's how I would explain kind of the five areas of focus from the ISO space. Maureen Olejarz: Thank you. Thank you, Rob. So that's really great. And as I think about Fidelity and the programs that you're all running, you know, they continue to get stronger, more connected to associates. And when I think about our the growth in the firm over the past couple of years, people onboard into this. Maureen Olejarz: Right. So they come into the firm and you were already helping them with you know, it can be phishing. It can be, you know, all manner of things that I'm sure we'll go through later in the interview here. Maureen Olejarz: But thanks for sharing that. So Maureen Olejarz: If we take a step back and look at the broad state of cybersecurity, what are some of the increasing trends Maureen Olejarz: we're seeing by cybercriminals and threat actors? Adam Ely: Yeah, I think it's really interesting. I said this a couple of years ago and I feel like it was true then. Truer statement now. This is simultaneously the best time and the worst time to be in cybersecurity. There are so many interesting things that are happening, but it's become an even more challenging job for day-to-day practitioners in cybersecurity groups like ours. The number of attacks are rising year over year. Adam Ely: I think the last out I saw said something like 7%. I think it's actually much bigger Adam Ely: based on larger data sets we're now starting to look at. We're seeing geopolitical attacks that are increasing every conflict that we're seeing in the world has some sort of cyber element to it now as well that we have to watch. And so it used to be that we could only just be technologists and then we had to understand tech and policy, but now we have to understand global affairs as well, which is very challenging. Adam Ely: Additionally, we're still seeing a lot of attacks that are leading to ransomware and stolen personal information of people, which is always is always concerning. So we're seeing these attackers continue to find ways to monetize Adam Ely: every technique. They have to demand ransoms, take companies offline, work for other cybercriminals. Adam Ely: And as we look out on the horizon, there's emerging technology. Adam Ely: So artificial intelligence is leading to deepfake videos and voice, which in turn is being used to defraud people either for the theft of personal information or the theft of financial accounts or anything in between. So it's a bit of a dizzying space at the moment. Maureen Olejarz: I think it would be fair to say after that description. That is a group that doesn't sleep. Adam Ely: Unfortunately we don't get to sleep very much. Maureen Olejarz: That's right. So recognizing you don't have a crystal ball, what do you think are some of the biggest challenges as we look out a year, three years or so, and what keeps you up at night? Adam Ely: Yeah, So Adam Ely: When I look out Adam Ely: really at the landscape, I think I probably always worry about roughly the same things. It's just new variances of those things. So, the fact that cybercriminals are getting better and more efficient and they're faster. They're leveraging the same technology that technologists at like big scale companies are leveraging. They run their operations in the cloud, they automate, they're using AI in their attacks. Adam Ely: The fact that the cost of technology is coming down to the to where attackers can use it and they can attack companies faster and have a higher success rate, they can just automate those attacks. That means that we as a company and really all companies need to be able to move faster and defend faster and respond to the signals they see, while also using that same automation and that same Adam Ely: artificial intelligence. Adam Ely: And then I think the evergreen thing that stays on my mind and I sort of mentioned is that as technology continues to change in those attackers get better, we just have to continue to think about how the world around us changes. So, if the products that we launch change our risk profile in some way, we have to make sure that we're countering that that risk before we launch that that new product. Adam Ely: If vendors, you know, the big cloud providers, if they're changing how they operate, we have to think about how that changes our risk profile. So it's the ever changing nature of technology that leads to the ever changing nature of cybersecurity, which back to the earlier comment means I don't get to sleep. Unfortunately. Maureen Olejarz: Thanks, Adam. That's really helpful. Maureen Olejarz: So, Adam, if we build on what we've just been talking about, Maureen Olejarz: how do you think about cybersecurity? Right? We work really hard. You, you in the organization, you know, really drive that across Fidelity as an enterprise. Maureen Olejarz: But how do you Maureen Olejarz: look at how Fidelity and how do you decide how Fidelity matches up against peers in the industry? Adam Ely: Yeah, it's a great question. First and foremost, I think cybersecurity is a team sport. No individual practitioner and no company can go at it alone. We all have to share ideas, new trends that we're seeing, cyber intelligence between us. We staff our own cyber intelligence team here at Fidelity that is constantly looking at what criminals are talking about, what actions are taking. Adam Ely: That team works with other companies, some of which may be competitors in the market, because we all have the same shared goal, which is to protect our companies, protect our customers, and that's the job. So we share that as much as we can. But the way that I think about it is, is through scenarios. Adam Ely: How are attackers trying to attack us and what are their objectives? Adam Ely: So is it they're trying to break in to to steal money or break into an individual account or intellectual property or research notes or whatever it might be? And we think about those scenarios and we form the risk scenarios around those objectives, and we look at what controls we have in place that can help protect us and where we should invest. Adam Ely: And we do this not only through our own internal assessments, but we leverage Adam Ely: several external companies that come in and assess our security controls. And these might be very specific things. They might be, you know, looking at just how we do software development in the security lifecycle there or they may be looking at the maturity of our overall operations. Adam Ely: So we have different set of external firms that come in and they audit us and they measure that and they do real live red teaming, testing, trying to break in and we get those results and we work with those partners. That's how we really test ourselves and know how well we're doing. We take that and we prioritize that and think about for every dollar we spend, how can we buy down the most risk possible? Adam Ely: And the whole idea is buying down risk, eliminating as much at risk as possible. And that's how we do our participation. That work, though, has some really great outcomes. It leads us to having a high functioning team that's very high maturity. It leads to the ISO certifications that we have. It leads to us being able to generate this evidence in industry that we really care about this, that we're doing a lot in, that we continue to work at it because the world around us continues to change. Maureen Olejarz: Raising the bar every day. Adam Ely: I mean, we have to the attackers are so we have to as well. Maureen Olejarz: Right. Maureen Olejarz: Thank you. That's really helpful. Maureen Olejarz: Bring you back to staying cyber safe in our day to day lives. Maureen Olejarz: What are some of the things that we need to - Maureen Olejarz: all should be vigilant about? Adam Ely: Yeah. So and that's the thing is I always try to boil things down to what are the actions that an individual can take and then build off of there. So if I think about us in our personal lives and this is going to to the technical listeners, this is going to sound repeated probably from your own company's Cyber Awareness Month information. Adam Ely: But the very first thing is just think about how secure your accounts are everywhere online. Start with your your mobile provider and your email provider that's the chain of trust to your online identity. Right there. So turn on the multifactor. And I know everybody tells you that, but it really is good advice. Turn on the multifactor. Be a little suspicious of the things you see question them when they come in. Adam Ely: If you get something that says, oh, you know, you have to reset your password because something's not working, ask yourself, is there a reason that it wasn't working? Issue? Should you actually click that link Adam Ely: then continue through your life and take actions such as freezing your credit report. Make sure that you can't be a victim of identity theft. Adam Ely: And the reason I start there versus on the bigger enterprise things is I think we as individuals have to focus on protecting ourselves so then we can actually be in that mindset to then work with other people or be in that mindset when we're in our jobs, when we're in our roles. So we have to start closest to home, if you will. Maureen Olejarz: Rob would love to hear from you. As we build on, what can individuals do, you know, themselves to stay vigilant about cybersecurity? Rob Hussey: Yeah, absolutely. In addition to what Adam had mentioned, I would add in a few things. One of them, you know, always keep your devices updated, whether it's from your mobile device or your laptops, accept those updates don't don't snooze them off. Rob Hussey: They're important from a security standpoint to keep those up to date. Rob Hussey: From a social engineering standpoint, we're seeing, you know, it's not just emails anymore. It's coming in through various channels, whether it's through apps, SMS or real voice phone calls. So just be be vigilant Rob Hussey: when people reach out to you and you don't know who it is. Rob Hussey: then lastly, I would say, you know, the spirit of Cybersecurity Awareness Month just helps to spread the word with with family and with friends, help them out and get the word out there. From a cybersecurity standpoint to be vigilant. Maureen Olejarz: Yeah, thanks. Maureen Olejarz: That's really helpful. Maureen Olejarz: let's go into some background, right? Maureen Olejarz: So if we think about folks in cybersecurity and you know, what's your background, what drew you into cybersecurity of Fidelity? Rob Hussey: I think the I think answer both of those questions wi th one answer. So I started my career as a co-op here at Fidelity. I attended a university locally in the Boston area, and my first co-op, an internship was with our internal audit group here at Fidelity in the I.T. group. And coming from an engineering standpoint, I was always really into computers, but it gave me exposure to Rob Hussey: work that that audit group was doing to interrogate systems to make sure that they're configured correctly, look for vulnerabilities and things like that. Rob Hussey: So my internship, my project that summer Rob Hussey: was around, Rob Hussey: you know, we had the group had some shell scripts that were written to go against Unix operating systems. And this was the time when Linux and I'm aging myself. Linux was just beginning to become accepted in the corporate environment. We had some, I think, non-production instances out there. So my my role was to port the Unix shell scripts to the unit, the Linux Shell script. Rob Hussey: So it gave me a good opportunity to learn about security. And I think that's where I got the bug, because ever since then I've been Rob Hussey: I've been into cybersecurity. I've been here for a long time, Maureen, as you know, 22 years and roles in various roles across cybersecurity. I did a quick count coming in. I think I've had seven roles averaging around three, three years each and each of those roles Maureen Olejarz: I think that's great. Thanks for sharing. Maureen Olejarz: As a co-op student. I like that. Yes. Yeah. Adam Ely: I didn't know you've been here 22 years. Rob Hussey: That's a long time. Adam Ely: Yeah, I just learned something. That's awesome. Congrats. It's amazing. Adam Ely: Just yesterday, Maureen Olejarz: Adam, would you like to share? Adam Ely: Sure. Adam Ely: You know my story. My story is a little different. Adam Ely: I got interested in technology and very specifically cybersecurity. At a young age. The story goes, I was using a computer and I was trying to do something, and the computer told me no. And I didn't understand that. I didn't understand how the computer could tell me, the human operator, no. Adam Ely: So this perplexed me. So I started learning the the internals. I wanted to understand how this was possible, mostly because I wanted to tell it no. So I actually started by learning how to reverse engineer software. So I had to learn how to develop first and then reverse engineer software so I could reverse engineer these controls so that I could then break the controls so the computer would always do what I wanted it to do. Adam Ely: So that's where I started. I entered into the enterprise. I had a number of roles. I worked for some big companies, some small companies, various verticals. I founded a cybersecurity startup that was acquired, came back to Enterprise. And two and a half years ago, I just I, I said yes to come to Fidelity because when I was talking to a few people and I said, “Is this a place to go?” Adam Ely: I don't I'm happy. I'm not looking. Is this a place to go? Everyone said it's a great culture. They're driving a lot of technology over there. You're going to see a lot of really interesting things that you probably wouldn't have thought just looking on the outside of like financial services in FinTech. Adam Ely: And then when I interviewed and I talked to people and it was all levels, it was all the way through the company, there was such a passion for tech, but also a deep passion for doing the right thing around cybersecurity and protecting our clients and our customers. Adam Ely: I was like, This feels like a really interesting place with interesting things happening and two and a half years in, I have yet to regret that. Maureen Olejarz: Excellent. That's great. So we have someone who grew up here and we have someone who's who's had a lot of other experiences, and that could be a whole other podcast Maureen Olejarz: to talk through that, Maureen Olejarz: you know, So as we think about our audience, right, for the people who are listening here, you know, there may be folks out there who hearing this would say, I'd love to have a career in cybersecurity. Maureen Olejarz: You know, what advice would you offer to them? Rob, let's start with you. Rob Hussey: Yeah, definitely. So I would say, you know, if you're still in school, obviously consider cyber as as a discipline or as a major or minor. Rob Hussey: There are many schools that offer that now. Also look into internships or co-ops that companies provide. I had a very positive experience here at Fidelity as an intern in and in the audit group. If you're already in a career, you know, I would first step back and take a look at cybersecurity, the discipline, because there's many paths in product areas and things to do in cyber and see which ones are of interest to you. Rob Hussey: You can do engineering, there’s is operations. There's very specific roles within cyber Rob Hussey: and look for some training opportunities in those areas. As many training opportunities as education. You can go for formal education or there's many sort of, you know, instructor self paced digital opportunities there Rob Hussey: in network within the company that you're in today know reach out to the cyber group, ask to meet with some folks, spend some time, see what they do, build your network within that group. Rob Hussey: And then lastly, it's always I think, good to go out and take a look at public job listings in cyber across across all companies to see what they're looking for, what skills they're looking for, competencies is tools that they use, etc., Maureen Olejarz: right? I mean, we know technology in general, there's no shortage, right? There's a there's a major shortage of technology talent out there. Maureen Olejarz: And I would imagine that as both of you as professionals in enterprise cyber. Right, that that's a very hot market right now looking for talent. Adam Ely: Yeah. Cyber security is one of the most in-demand spaces right now. And it's both within the technology side of it. But we have many roles are not technology as well, and they're all very hard to fill in. The interesting thing, you know, echo something that Rob said, you know, I think one of the the kind of pro tips for people trying to find a job is one look at the company you're in today. Adam Ely: If you're if you're already working every cybersecurity team is trying to hire and they're trying to find the right candidates to go and make those connections and say, why you think you can do the job even if your resume does not show it, if you don't have the background. You didn't go to school for cyber security or commerce. Go have the conversation. Adam Ely: Take the swing. If you're not working or you're you're maybe working, but you want to switch companies or locales, get out there and network with as many people. Send a note to a CISO on LinkedIn, pick, do one a week and just send them a note and say, I'd love to pick your brain. You will find that people are more open and welcoming to those conversations than you probably realize and will help you get in the door and build that connection. Adam Ely: But it'll also help you hear the signals of what people are asking, what they're looking for, and how to tell your story and your value prop. Even if you're not the most technical or you don't have the classic background, but you know that you have something to apply that can help protect the company and the people that rely upon them. Maureen Olejarz: I think that's really great advice. Anything else you would offer in that space to folks? Because I think that sounds that sounds like really sage advice to people. Adam Ely: And in the end, the only other thing I would say and Rob mentioned this is we have we have different types of roles, you know, so we have product security of instant response. And then, you know, if you know yourself and you know what you like to do, go out and talk to people about where you think the type of work that you enjoy lines up. Adam Ely: If you don't know, don't be scared to just start somewhere. Maureen: Yeah. Adam Ely: And go explore and move around in the company and gain more skills until you find that niche that really speaks to you. Maureen Olejarz: Excellent. Thanks. Thanks for sharing Maureen Olejarz: So, Rob, Maureen Olejarz: this has been a great conversation, but in the spirit of, you know, closing out with, you know, some positive messages to people, we did cover some before, but maybe let's just have you go through one last time. Maureen Olejarz: What are the things that are really important for individuals to take, take their own agency to be able to protect themselves? Rob Hussey: Yeah, sure. I would offer maybe three or four quick hits as we close out. I mean, I would say be vigilant, don't get phished. Be aware of things that are coming in through all your channels, communication channels. Rob Hussey: Consider password managers to manage your passwords. Rob Hussey: they offer strength and complexity and some of them offer auto rotation. And then lastly, MFA, Rob Hussey: Multifactor authentication Rob Hussey: and I mentioned this I think at least twice Rob Hussey: enable MFA on those accounts that matter or all accounts that offer it really, it's something that should be considered to strengthen your security posture online. Maureen Olejarz: Wonderful Maureen Olejarz: So, Rob, I'm sure there are some fun facts about you that we just need to know. Maureen Olejarz: You know, we always love to close out, you know, before we finish a session of our podcast. You know, what are some fun facts about you? Rob Hussey: Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, I'm an avid snowmobiler, so I enjoy getting out in northern Maine, out in the woods, places where maybe there isn't cell phone service and unplug for a little bit. It's a hobby that I've been doing with my dad now for over 20 years, and it's something that I really enjoy. So Rob Hussey: So when we go out on any given day, we call it a success. If we if we hit 100 miles on a day trip. Rob Hussey: when I think of fun, I think of snow. Rob Hussey: I think of the winter and I think of snowmobiling. Maureen Olejarz: And Adam, let's hear from you. What's your fun fact? Adam Ely: I dont know if this is fun, but people tend to find this entertaining. I dropped out of college five times. I ended up going back I end up going to get a masters, then I end up going to get another masters, which then I also dropped out of psych a six times technically. And now I actually teach in that second master's program. Adam Ely: But for me it was important for me to get in the industry and try to get that work experience, because that's also how I learn and I progress. But I knew at the time I needed to go back and finish the degree, which is interesting. I think that really for others listening to this is now, you know, degrees are so varied and people can start their career without a degree. Adam Ely: But when I went to school and was entering the career field, it was a very different thing. So I look back on that and just how different it was back then. Adam Ely: Well, thanks so much. That's you know, that's really a unique story, so that's great. Maureen Olejarz: I want to thank both of you for joining us today. Adam, thank you for being gracious on flipping the script for today for Cybersecurity Month. And Rob, thanks for joining us today. Thank you. Adam Ely: Thank you. Adam Ely: Thanks for joining us for Tech on Deck. We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you haven't yet, please give us a five-star rating and subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from. Maureen Olejarz: Thank you to our listeners and recording studio and editors who make our episodes possible. To learn more about tech opportunities, head over to Tech Dot Fidelity Careers Dot.com. Adam Ely: See you next time.