Empowering Women to Pursue a Tech Career

Maureen Olejarz Welcome to Tech on Deck podcast, brought to you by Fidelity Investments. I'm your host, Maureen Olejarz, CIO of Enterprise Software Engineering. Adam Ely And I’m Adam Ely, the head of digital products and engineering. Adam Ely Each episode takes listeners inside the walls of a fintech industry. Maureen Olejarz Anything from cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, cloud and crypto to the intersection of product and technology. Adam Ely Tech on Deck breaks down the topics top of mind for technologists today. Maureen Olejarz Plus, we'll give you insight into the exciting and challenging careers in fintech. Welcome back to another episode of Tech on Deck. I'm Maureen Olejarz, Head of Software Engineering at Fidelity. Adam Ely And I'm Adam Ely, the Head of Digital Products and Engineering. Maureen Olejarz Today we have a very special guest who is joining us from Galway, Ireland. Lorna Martyn is on today's podcast and she's an SVP of Technology Management at Fidelity and has quite a list of accolades. So, Lorna, give me a moment here to walk through these, but it’s really impressive. She is an active and visible advocate for D&I, most particularly for greater women representation in technology, a board member of Technology Ireland and the Irish American Partnership. Maureen Olejarz She's also actively involved in developing the technology and education ecosystems within Ireland. She's a winner of technology Ireland, Person of the Year and winner of Women in Tech Initiative. Hashtag Tech IRL Awards 2023. In addition, Lorna is winner of the Global Leadership Award issued by the American Chamber of Commerce in Ireland May of 2023. So, Lorna, really, really impressive. Maureen Olejarz Thank you for being here with us. Lorna Martyn Thanks so much for having me on. Adam Ely Now, Lorna, there's just so much amazing and like goodness in there. I'm not sure where to start, but I think maybe the best place to start is with the D&I work that you do. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got involved in in that and maybe why you're so passionate about it? Lorna Martyn Well, to be totally honest, Adam probably for the first ten years of my career, I wasn't even aware of the challenges. I came from a university class that was 50/50 male/female. I went into a gender balanced graduate program. I don't think any of it was by design. Maybe it's just my age. But, you know, after a couple of years working, I started to notice some of my colleagues and friends actually drop out of of technology. Lorna Martyn And then, you know, when I came to Fidelity, I started to notice that a lot of women in the technical engineering roles weren't progressing in Ireland. You know, there were getting to seniors, and they weren't moving beyond that. So I started a mentoring circle with one of our HR Business partners here really focused on trying to encourage women to move forward. Lorna Martyn And that was quite successful. And then I kind of got more broadly involved in the industry in Ireland. I joined a couple of boards. I got to then kind of progressed to conferences and speaker gigs, and now I suppose I spend a lot of time on social media. But really, I guess my focus these days is focusing on how do we encourage women and girls to participate in our industry? And how do we support their development and growth? Lorna Martyn And I guess a big area for me in the last few years, it's really about how do we find untapped talent? So looking at alternative pipelines, pipelines may be different from the pipeline. I came into technology because there are so many different pathways today and there are so many opportunities. It's a wonderful career to have, but I think a lot of people are not necessarily aware of those opportunities. Lorna Martyn So I'm passionate about, I call it my back to the future. I'd like the future to look like my past. Maybe not in terms of some of the technology I had to work with, but more so in terms of the opportunities and that for me is a massive passion, understanding that some of the things we do today may take, you know, months, years, decades to actually come to fruition. Lorna Martyn But it's a huge passion for me. Maureen Olejarz Thanks, Lorna. I'm going to say truly amazing once again. And when I think about what you mentioned a little bit earlier on, the education ecosystem in Ireland and the work that you do, and I know when we visited Ireland locations, you know, just been really impressed with the programs that you've helped sponsor and start there. So, we know we know why diversity is, you know, really important, whether it's, you know, women in technology, whether it's, you know, having better diversity overall. Maureen Olejarz But can you tell us in your own words, you know, why all technical companies and why it's so vital and important to really focus on bringing in diverse talent? Lorna Martyn And I think you've touched on that there already, Maureen, that's nothing new. I mean, I think there's a societal imperative and there's also a business imperative. And, you know, a lot of research has been done really are looking at diverse teams and creativity that emerges from that diversity. You know, even the United Nations speak to decisions that they make where this diverse teams, those decisions tend to be much more durable. Lorna Martyn So, I think for business, the business imperative, I think pulling a diverse team together, you know, really brings out creativity. And we also have to remember that our customers and our future customers, they're not all the same. So, I think having a team that's diverse really brings better understanding into the design and execution of products for all tech companies, You know, and ultimately for me as well, it's a lot of fun to work with people from different places with different experiences. Lorna Martyn You know, if we were all the same, it would be a pretty boring workday. Adam Ely So I have to say, I didn't expect a UN comment to be worked into this, but I love we're all over the place. I love where we're going here. Lorna, as you're as you're talking as you and Maureen were talking a little bit, I was thinking these all sound like great goals, great outcomes, great things to strive for. Adam Ely But, you know, the question I'm left with is, is how, how, how do we get to that? How have you worked towards that sort of make it real? Are there programs or actions or steps that you've taken to sort of make this real and be able to achieve these goals? Lorna Martyn Yeah, I think the first thing I will say is, you know, I'm 20 years of Fidelity this year, and Fidelity provides fantastic support, really invested in education and diversity and inclusion. So I think having, you know, I'm very fortunate and, you know, you both in the space as well to have that support here. And you know, many of the actions that we may be take in Ireland are mirrored in programs across Fidelity in the United States. Lorna Martyn So, for example, focusing on some of those underrepresented pipelines or looking at “resume” candidates, you know, focusing on policies around diversity and hiring and so forth. But I think, you know, there's probably a couple of interesting things that we do in terms of looking at alternate pipelines of Fidelity in Ireland. And one of those areas is looking at software engineering and cybersecurity apprentices. Lorna Martyn And that's really, you know, people who are coming to it with a passion, not necessarily with a college degree. And we have a fantastic partnership with with it with a group called “Fast Track into I.T.”, where they really focus on the education and upskilling side, and then we provide the experiential side. So I think there's lots of opportunities for companies to look at that in terms of, you know, how do you think about different pathways in how do you support different communities and how do you actually get out there? Lorna Martyn You know, it's not necessarily there's never going to be enough college graduates coming out. We also work with a lot of partners in STEM education. You know, one of two, that kind of spring to mind. And, you know, we work with a group called “Code Plus”. And essentially their their mission is to educate more women in coding and that's really kind of getting to them in the schools and so forth. Lorna Martyn And similarly, we work a lot with teachers. So, Adam, your teams in Ireland actually works very closely on a cybersecurity lesson in a box sort of session where, you know, a teacher in a school who may not feel equipped to actually teach a technology in a classroom now has all of the resources and back up to do it in a very, very holistic manner. Lorna Martyn They're not just like one page ahead of the students in the classroom, although there's lots of lots of lots of smart students. And then I think, you know, for me, a big part of it is about educating the educators and the influencers. So, if you can get to the parents, if you can get the teachers, you know, I always laugh if you if you can actually hit every grandmother in Ireland, the grandmothers tell the children what they should be studying in school. Lorna Martyn So my aim is to get to everybody in Ireland and tell them about fidelity and tell them about technology and tell them about the great careers. So for me, that's a big part of it, is educate the educators and the influencers and one program we do here and we actually have in a few weeks’ time is called root to STEM and we bring children in from secondary school, which they're around to age 16 or so, and we immerse them here with us for a week. Lorna Martyn And they literally my only students actually just back in October, she came into that program, no interest in technology. She was going to college to be a teacher. She's done a couple of she's in that transition year program where they go and have different work experiences. She's now going to apply for computer science, you know, So I'm a few of them in my family now that I've converted at this stage. Lorna Martyn So I feel like they're my bit. But everyone else needs to do a little bit as well. So, lots of programs. But I think the biggest part of it is actually, you know, you have to put some criteria around what you do. So I look at the work our diversity and inclusion team are doing. They're looking at the outcome, they're measuring the outcome, they're looking at the impact. Lorna Martyn Every single partnership we have, we get really, really strong impact metrics and every program that we sponsor. So for instance, with Dublin City University, we supported an initiative, again, an immersive initiative in college called Compute IT – oh compute TY it's called. And literally we, we, we set those criteria in terms of 70% of that grouping need to be female. Lorna Martyn So I think we need to continue to push to ensure that we have the right demographics. And whether it's you're looking for, you know, whatever, whatever element of diversity, it's really about setting those frameworks around us. Adam Ely That's amazing. So, you know, last time I was there in Ireland, I got to see some of this and talk to some of the associates. And the thing that I wanted to ask and didn't get a chance to ask and now I have you on the hot seat and I can ask the question right here is if you get out there and you really get those “granny” influencers driving their grandkids towards these these paths, how do you measure that? Adam Ely Like, how do you know that that grainy influencer network and all the work that you're doing, all the work the teams doing is really moving the needle and that we're working on the on the right things? Are there are there benchmarks or some sort of measurements that you have? Lorna Martyn Yeah, I think, you know, you have to look at micro and macro benchmarks. So I think, you know, if you think about the action and the response, so I go back to the example of, you know, that story where I started out with that mentor group. I followed that grouping through to see did they progress. And actually a lot of them progressed and stayed in the technical career path, which was the intention there. Lorna Martyn So that's kind of a micro example, you know, and then, you know, if we look at data, I think we have to look at data also at, you know, the macro level. So, if I look at, say, the European averages, right? So, and again, it's very difficult cause you can get the numbers for anything else here. And and we both we all understand that different aspects of technology have different balances in terms of gender representation and also representation from a diversity perspective. Lorna Martyn But if I look at Europe, for example, you know, about 19% of the population working in ICT is is female. If I look at Ireland, it's about 21 to 23%. It's probably something very similar in the United States. If I look at Fidelity, it's actually significantly higher than that, and that's down to the interventions in terms of sometimes you have to actually go out and do a major pull on that. Lorna Martyn But Adam, I think the biggest challenge here is, you know, looking at this from a long-term perspective, so very and really making sure that you create the right climate for for that progression. Recently, we were awarded what with what's called “Investors in Diversity Gold Standard” in Fidelity, Ireland, and that's an independent benchmark of how you're performing from an inclusion perspective. Lorna Martyn It looks at, you know, as we progress through, you know, bronze, silver or gold, which is the highest benchmark. And essentially that was based on looking at all of the data in terms of what are the attitudes and responses of our associates. So those who already work for us, what are the responses of the broader ecosystem in terms of their understanding of, you know, technology and what Fidelity do? Lorna Martyn And then also looking at all of our processes and practices, because I think that's if we go out and speak that speak the talk, the talk and walk. But if you don't walk the walk, it doesn't translate into anything. So, I think that's another maybe good benchmark from, you know, from an Ireland perspective. Lorna Martyn So I think you have to look at the macro and look at the micro. And for me, it's a big thing is like celebrate every small success. So even if it's just a tiny step forward, I remember we were doing we did an event for International Women's Day here where we used to bring lots of schoolchildren, and I think we're about four years in before one girl said to me, I'm going to study computer science, and that was the best thing that ever happened. Lorna Martyn You know, we didn't think about it took four years to make it happen, you know, and similarly, we see that in a lot of the schools that we work with. We see that that transition from getting the support in the classroom, actually having representation and access to lots of really wonderful role models. And one of the great things at Fidelity is we bring people from all sorts of backgrounds, you know, so if I think about some of the design teams we've got really we've got fine art graduates, you know, a lot of times that's making those connections between, you know, where are those transferable skills and how does that work in the in the in Lorna Martyn the tech world and particularly as roles are constantly changing. So it's not easy, Adam. It's not fast, but I think it's you know, it's it's there's merit in making continuing to make the effort and continuing to look for those benchmarks. And, you know, and even if they're not strong signals, you need to kind of push on them a little bit. Lorna Martyn So hopefully that answer some of that question. Maureen Olejarz So, Lorna, I think, you know, and Adam, thanks for asking that. I'm going to pull on one thread. You know, there was so much so much richness there. But you talk to from the whole gamut of starting with school age children, helping with the education systems where you can, starting programs you talked about broader things outside the Fidelity and the finance industry. Maureen Olejarz And then you also talked about there's a sister program that you have in Ireland. And, you know, we're going to go into your career and how you got into it. But you know, what I first want to start with is that it's called “Resume”. And we have this program. You have a sister program in Ireland and we have it in the U.S. And I think it's important on that end of career journeys as well, because would you like to talk a little bit about that program? Lorna Martyn Yeah, absolutely. And that's really focused on, you know, so I talked about a lot of colleagues who maybe dropped out of tech, you know, and went off and did other things. So, “Resume” is a great opportunity for people who maybe have had a career in technology in the past to come back to a career in technology and have that support, because I think sometimes the challenges people feel a little bit intimidated in terms of what's that learning gap are. Lorna Martyn I've been out of the business are and particularly for women, you know, some women will take time away because they want to focus on other things. It may be caring duties for children, it may be caring duties for parents. It may be both in many cases. And really, it's about building that confidence and providing the opportunity for someone to come back. Lorna Martyn And I will say hand on heart, some of the best colleagues we have here are those who've come through the “Resume” program because they have a great passion for what they what they're doing. They've they've walked into it, you know, by making a very deliberate commitment to come back into the technology sphere. You know, and that's not always true with graduates, because, you know, all of us, when we went to college, you know, some of us were pretty sure, others just kind of maybe drifted into it. Lorna Martyn So I think what resume, it's really it's a fantastic way of bringing maybe a lot of really great transferable skills and other experiences. And the benefit of that to a team at large is just amazing that we're talking about diverse teams. Having diverse experiences is a huge part of that creativity as well. Maureen Olejarz So, thank you. I just wanted to pull on that thread and then of course, as a female in technology, I want to transition into this next set as we talk about your career journey. But as a woman in technology, and I am as well. And so, if I think about, you know, my own journey there, I was fortunate enough to have, you know, my father was an engineer and he would bring me to work and and and we had and I went to a university that had a cooperative education program. Maureen Olejarz And when I think about that now, that allowed me to see things that I wouldn't have seen just from having part time jobs. And then I said, okay, well, this is something I could be interested in. So, let's let's hear definitely as our guest here for the audience, let's hear about your journey. Lorna Martyn Yeah. And I think the reason I'm so focused and passionate about, you know, those 12- or 13-year-old girls is because that was where my pivot point was. So, my mother was hugely interested in education. I'm one of six children, five boys and myself, so work that out in terms of the interesting household dynamic, very good for leadership, lots of negotiation and opportunities to mediate. Lorna Martyn But as you know, I have I have three older brothers, so they were all getting to the point where they could have summer jobs. And I was like the younger sister who couldn't because I wasn't old enough. And my mother’s solution to everything was if you're if you went and said, you bored, you got a job, or Lorna Martyn Something happened, Right? So I went this particular summer and I was like complaining about I couldn't have a job and I was bored and I have two younger brothers and they were annoying me. And she took out the local newspaper and this was wasn't it wasn't the first time I was sent off on a on a course of some description. Lorna Martyn She actually picked out a coding course from the local newspaper here, the Golden Advertiser. And she dispatched me off. That was two weeks. So, it was two weeks to get out of her hair. And I went to the classroom, and I think there were 12 in total, 11 boys and me. And that was for me, that was the book. Lorna Martyn I absolutely loved it. And I got great encouragement from the instructor that was there. And then I got really fortunate when when I when I when I went back to school, we actually had a a pilot course for the leaving cert, just kind of our end of high school type exams. So, there was a there was a pilot course for our coding as part of our mathematics exams. Lorna Martyn So, we had some you know, we had some computers at school too. So that was another opportunity to, you know, I was off showing off my friends while I learned it all. You'd laugh when you think about it now, it just training programs in basic and stuff like that. But that was really, you know, so for me, that was the starting point and that's why I knew I wanted to study computer science at the university to the point I live in a town that has two universities. Lorna Martyn I went 80 miles south to go to university because that's where where the courses were and like you, I also had that cooperative education experience. So that great experiential element of it, because I think it's great to be in the classroom and it's great to be playing around on the side, but to get that experiential element where you're part of a business team with a business mission is massively important, you know? Lorna Martyn So for many, you know, I probably have had a very straight line career because all of my career has been in technology. But equally, you know, I've worked in a couple of different, different areas. I spent about five years working for a vendor company in the telecommunications space, and that was great. You know, even when you went in consulting and you learn a lot about, you know, how to deal with people and how to, you know, deconstruct problems fairly quickly and, you know, how to build and all of those good things. Lorna Martyn And, you know, this is my 20th year at Fidelity. At Fidelity, I've had eight different roles at Fidelity, and they're across all of the different business units. And that's the one thing I will say. I mean, when I came to Fidelity, I probably had the similar notion that I was coming for a couple of years, but I feel Fidelity has provided me many careers in the course of that 20 years because there's so much mobility and opportunity for mobility. Lorna Martyn If you're willing to do that. And so that's, you know, that's probably the short version. You know, it's hard to kind of stick 33 years into it, into two into 2 minutes. But that's, you know, a great opportunity. But, you know, very kind of focused on just us happening at age 12. Adam Ely So, nothing not to take anything away from your story, Lorna. I think the most amazing thing, though, is your mom picked up a newspaper, pointed to something, and that became a 33-year career. And I don't know if she's like the best job counselor, career counselor ever or you got really lucky there. But like, that is the most amazing origin story that I've heard and it's not. Maureen Olejarz It’s not a granny influencer. Adam Ely Yeah, no. Lorna Martyn It's it's she is probably a very frustrated mother of six, and that's probably the reality. And, you know, as kids, we lived, we lived up not too far from like a local community college. We were sent off to do all sorts of things. I was sent off to learn to type this about age ten, you know, again, just out of boredom, you know. Lorna Martyn So, she was a great focus You know, she's a huge focus on education. She wanted her children to, you know, and we're all very different. But she but that's exactly the kind of thing my mom used to do. She was like, this is the solution. Off you go. Learn something, learn something. Adam Ely Action oriented. I love it. Lorna, you know, you've said you you've had eight different roles. You've been here 20 years. We're coming up on 20 years. I think you have one of the more unique roles for quite a few of the people here because you're based out of Ireland. So you have teams that are at two different cities in Ireland teams and work that's happening across the U.S.. Adam Ely Can you talk to us a little bit about what it's like managing these global teams, global initiatives and and maybe a little about that one team approach? Lorna Martyn Yeah, I have to say I am I love my job and I love the fact that I'm part of a global team. And the one thing again I would say about fidelity, I think that that cohesion of our teams across the globe, it's really, really strong. You know, we may have different backgrounds, we may be in different time zones. Lorna Martyn But I think, you know, the focus on building those unified teams is massively important in terms of how we work. For me as a leader, it makes it really interesting because, you know, you have that opportunity not just to kind of focus on what's around you, but to look at the bigger picture. So, you know, trying to connect strategically, it's probably given me more opportunities to sit in C-suite type meetings that maybe I might not have had. Lorna Martyn You know, if we were working for a company that was just in one geography R&D, the company that just literally ran the organization. And by geography, I've had the great fortune to be part of the leadership team here in Ireland for many, many years, you know, and it provides maybe some unique opportunity in terms of, you know, growing teams. Lorna Martyn Right? So really getting down to the nitty gritty of how do you identify talents, but also how do you ensure that that talent works in a global context. So how does it work, making sure that it works with, you know, the other locations that that the team is operating in? And I think also it gives you a much broader cultural outlook in terms of so, you know, I would have spent quite a lot of time with my colleagues in India. Lorna Martyn I spent a lot of time in India. I spent a lot of time in the U.S. I did a couple of assignments with Fidelity actually in the US as well. So that gives you a great broad perspective. And, you know, I wouldn't trade I wouldn't trade this opportunity for anything. And the other side of it is sometimes being 3,000 miles from headquarters can be a blessing because it gives you a little bit of time to absorb and think about how you respond to, you know, major strategic changes as well. Lorna Martyn So, I think the culture at Fidelity is very, very connected. We're very connected globally, you know, and I think that's kind of one of the unique things about Fidelity's culture is, you know, no matter whether you go to India or you go to the United States or you go to Ireland, there's really, really strong threads of commonality in terms of how people behave, how people respect each other. Lorna Martyn And I think that's the reason why you stay with a company for 20 years. Maureen Olejarz That's great, Lorna. So let's connect that now to the next section here. Will we like to talk to the audience about what are we looking for? When you look for talent, right, as a as a leader here for almost 20 years, you know, maybe just just to kind of summarize all of that, you know, what are some important aspects you want to share? Lorna Martyn I look for three things. I look for passion. I look for aptitude and I look for attitude. Because, you know, one of the things really important in a tech career is that nothing stands still. So you're constantly having to learn. So first of all, you know, if you're going to spend so much time working in an area, you have to at least have some passion for it. Lorna Martyn It can't be just a means to pay the bills because otherwise that won't sustain you over time. And then, you know, aptitude clearly, you know, if I look at maybe some of the hiring that we would do in the cybersecurity area, Adam, that you're very familiar with, a lot of that is focused on aptitude. Right. It's really the so many have the right mindset. Lorna Martyn So they have the skills are have the ability to learn the skills. And then I think attitude is hugely important. You know, particularly in a company like this where there's a huge focus on lifelong learning, that's a huge investment and things like “Learning Days”. So, you know, having all of those three, three ingredients together is massively important, you know, in terms of, you know, if you hire someone for the second half, someone for a recipe. Lorna Martyn So if you have a job description and it might be, you know, everyone, somebody might hit every single point on that list at this point in time, you still have to think about will they scale and grow over the over time as things change, as new opportunities arise. So really, I think about take a very long-term view. Lorna Martyn Even when we're dealing with graduates, you take a long-term view in terms of, you know, do they have that right the right aptitude, Do they have the right attitude and do they have the passion for, you know, for for the company and for the role itself? And beyond that, I think everything else is teachable. That's my personal view anyway. Maureen Olejarz So, Lorna, let's build off on what you talked about in terms of, you know, aptitude, passion, attitude and maybe share with the audience some of the skill, some of the key skills that you have, not just behavioral, but like, you know, what are the what are the technology skills that, you know, in Fidelity, Ireland, that you're looking for? Lorna Martyn Yeah, we do. Right? We hire for a huge range of technology skills similar to the rest of Fidelity. So, software engineering, cybersecurity, cloud computing, product management and you know, all of the agile type roles like Scrum Masters and so forth. So, it's a whole gambit in terms of, you know, if you think about your, your lineup for a software development team and an engineering quality team, we have everything there Maureen Olejarz That's wonderful. Adam Ely Although you definitely show that you have the the excitement and the interest for all the things you're doing and working with you. I know that you have the attitude and aptitude as well, so I could see why you've been here and been successful. I've enjoyed this and I'm learning a few things about you as I always do in these sessions. Adam Ely But we are coming to time it feels like. So, before we wrap up, we always ask our guest to share something fun about themselves. Help us, our listeners, our other coworkers get to know them a little bit. So, what can you share with us that maybe not everybody knows? Lorna Martyn Oh wow. So, I probably will be at a factor of ridicule after this. But when my mother wasn't sending us off to two classes, I'm hugely interested in theater and music, so I think I made my first appearance on stage at age four in school. I went to school at three and a half and I think I was did a solo at the school show at age four. Lorna Martyn So, I love to sing. And these days that kind of comes through. I work I spend one of the founder members of our workplace choirs here at Fidelity in Ireland. And also, we have a global workplace choir that we formed during COVID which spans across the globe. So that's a huge kind of focus in terms of we we practice one hour a week. Lorna Martyn That's kind of what I call the Mental Health Hour, and it's on a Tuesday at lunchtime. So, if you ever have a meeting with me at about after 1:00 Irish time on a Tuesday, I'll be in great form because we live just laughed and sang. And, you know, I think it's great for the brain, it's good, it's great for the mind, it's great for the mental health. Lorna Martyn But in general, I'm a massive, you know, I love to go to shows. I love to go to plays. You know, if I get to New York, you'll find me on Broadway. If I get to London, you find me on the West End in the audience, I might add. And even at one point I had a leadership session for my technology team here in Ireland, and we actually did it on the stage of the National Theater in the Abbey Theater. Lorna Martyn So, I can now say that we, my entire technology team performed on the National Theater of Ireland stage. So probably not too many tech teams out there who can say that. Adam Ely Well, Lorna Ah, we want to thank you for being with us today. It's great to hear your your journey and all that you're doing for us as a company in the workforce at large, really. So, thank you so much. Maureen Olejarz Thank you, Lorna. Lorna Martyn Thank you. Such a lovely opportunity to speak to you today. Thank you. Adam Ely Thanks for joining us for Tech on Deck. We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you haven't yet, please give us a five-star rating and subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from. Maureen Olejarz Thank you to our listeners and recording studio and editors who make our episodes possible. To learn more about tech opportunities, head over to Tech Dot Fidelity Careers Dot Com. Adam Ely See you next time.